tv Sophie Co RT October 6, 2017 2:29pm-3:01pm EDT
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come to sophie and co the independence referendum in catalonia has caused a violent crisis in spain with potential wider consequences for the european union . where to go from here on how can the european community help well i asked the former head of the council of europe walter. stubborn kind of drive for independence has been met with a heavy spanish crackdown people fired at interested was kind of poor and. hard line resolved how should the european react to the crisis in a peaceful way i would be found after the clashes with passion in the region and an all time high brussels pomerado as solution well to shrimp are welcome to the show
it's good to have you on our program now you were at the howell of the council of europe and very vocal in your support for e.u. unity but at the moment the continent has its problems for instance in spain got to lonia has voted for independence wildman dream it says a referendum was illegal clashes between the spanish police and independence supporters left more than eight hundred people wounded and the region has now gone on strike so in your opinion what's next will one side bag down or another spanish civil war on the carts it calls. that. i have been shocked by the force used by the police i fully understand that the spanish government wants to defend the territorial integrity of the country on the other side. well the justified.
requests were made by the people of kut the lumia so that cannot be answered fire just by police force other calls for dialogue i hope europe will be able to moderate such a dialogue between the spanish central government and. the government of cut the lumia so the main issue between the main bone of contention between catalonia and the central government is fiscal policy council on one control over their taxes something that the basques have for instance so it's not impossible why not just give them that one that suits the tensions. this could be the outcome of a fruitful dialogue. i don't think that. the supporters of cut the loonies but the long years into independence extremists.
they want like everybody else in europe to live in peace and to decide on their own . affairs so compromise should people feasible and i call upon to both sides to be ready to such a dialogue. you know in canada and the united kingdom central government allowed secession referendums treaty of them whether respect and personated people to state peacefully why didn't the same happen in spain. just to just to declare it's illegal is this not enough of it is of course not in accordance with the spanish constitution so. the physicians of the. constitutional court of spendable but. this is the cut alone people should have to opportunity to express their opinion and i'm not sure that under the peaceful conditions there
would be a majority for independence. but you're right the spanish government should be ready to accept the referendum with full information of the people what does it mean what it means independence what it means and hence autonomy so and the question perhaps should not be only yes and no to independence by those zero option enhanced autonomy for catalonia you know before this violence happened the public opinion on independence was actually a tilting and moderates favor is it too late now to persuade the catalans around again does your rights united to and and the behavior of the police is absolute unacceptable and that has driven i think more people to the side of the separatists but do you think it's too late now to
actually personally have the catalans the way around no it's never been no but it's never too late it's never too late as long as peaceful solutions are possible one should strive for so qantas prime minister trudeau is actually from quebec which was once looking to break away from canada to spain maybe need a prime minister from catalonia in power would that actually help solve anything. for of time be don't see the opportunity of having a prime minister from ca to lose in the spanish government so let's look for every other. opportunity to solve these disputes peacefully barcelona's mayor has called on spain's prime minister to step down they say appointing a rock or stepping down the problem is that the spanish central government
has to learn how to deal with their wish to have more self-determination that's that's the that's the point what do you mean and that is you said before they are. then and independents are not independents and then so tell me what besides such an option and with more things fiscal zero sorted before the government in catalonia i think main difficulties. could be so why before the referendum spain's foreign minister branded a mockery of democracy long list of the captcha loans are also calling the actions of madrid an affront to democracy who if anyone is right in this situation once again. your personal take not an official statement here we have
a conflict of two principles the principle of. sense to terminations of people and the principle of territorial integrity. is not the only case in that respect. but as spain is a member of the european union spain is a member of the council of europe. spain should be committed to peaceful solutions. the e.u. has sat there referendum wasn't legal and didn't promise membership to catalonia as its supporting the drita but in light of the violence is it right for the e.u. to be condoning such brutal tactics. is a huge it should condemn such. an acceptable behavior. of law enforcement agency of the central government. this was not helpful not the
template for the position of the central government so i think the problem is that the whole and the. central government should apologize for the actions of god you'll see real and. central police units and that would open the power for for dialogue and for negotiations between the two parties and that which is so the spanish that has condemned the catalan authorities for placing themselves outside the law and democracy while backing the central government for ensuring the constitutional order i mean in a way it's understandable he's a moron or what else is going to say but wouldn't that be wiser for him to actually go neutral isn't one of spain yeah but wouldn't be wiser in this situation to actually be more natural and calm things down i mean look at queen elizabeth of england was a lot more careful in
a similar situation giving audience to the scottish first minister making very careful call and even though she was always late. all central authorities in spain including the king the prime list of cause the parliament or the socialist opposition should bear in mind that. the way how they wanted to defend the territory integrity was supporting. the call for independence of course have to diminish and. so we should go a step back and trying to find common way out to how to deal with the issue of of the cut alone people cattle and politicians have called on the e.u. to mediate but weisel so has said that the whole thing is a spanish internal matter why not help out
a fellow member state in trouble why not help mediate i wouldn't say that full internal matter. the force used by the spanish police of was in my view clear violation of human rights and it is never. an internal matter this is a european matter and human rights are violated. what do you think are the consequences of the catalan vote for the european union. that there are no you know immediate consequences of to catalonia vote and if you deal seriously with the legal correct of the referendum. it cannot be taken as the position of the majority of the had alone people of.
partly because of the actions of a central government which complicated by loads of confiscated ballot boxes that said to a set of which closed down polling stations. it's a difficult situation. and. that the solution is not a legal one the solution is a political one and and there must be the political will of course sides of spanish government and of the catalonian government. to sit still. and to find solutions this is my final statement to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue discussing today with the question of the copula referendum on the rest of e.u. and other challenges to block is facing states.
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back with walter schwimmer former secretary general of the council of europe and co-founder of dialogue of civilizations research institute discussing the way some capital a referendum on independence in the context of present challenges mr shrum are they you has also other issues right now the title refugees and migrants into europe has been put under some control for now but what is happening to those who are already in how is during the gratian going. there if what you call rises if you want to call it that way. has. major perspectives one is the control of the outer borders of the european union which has to be enforced. if the union wants to be strong in it must be
possible for for it to control the outside of borders. otherwise schengen would not function. and the other as specter of the refugee crisis is there's a lack of solidarity between the european union it is clear that few to the geographical situation. mainly greece and italy i involved in the refugee wave from middle east and from africa and on the other hand the more wealthy countries from sweden that the lands germany austria i involved because people when moving to europe understandable they want to go to a place but up at a living conditions. but their rights to asylum in the right if used to speak about relief which is because they are refugees of coming from
conflict areas and they are economic migrants who wants just to have a better life in europe where it will do your room your pure opinion has to deal with all these aspects yes but and it's must. insist on solidarity of all european countries with those countries who are targeted by the wave of refugees but what is happening is no doubt separable that for example a large country poland which your benefits from you membership are refusing to take refugees but what's happening to the refugees that are already inside europe how is their integration going those who have to rights to stay in europe that. granted asylum. or i was will will be for me perry in the
reasons except it as residents of the european countries they have to be integrated and this is not of one way street. the governments regional governments local governments have to offer the opportunities for integration but people has also be ready for integration we have in austria just in our piece discussion because some radical islamic movements are against the integration of. muslims who came to australia i was i'm favor i was i helping i was i want to be integrated so. it is also a cutie of migrants and refugees. to contribute to the only to gratian learning the language of the country where they live accepting their way of living living in
this country is accepting equal rights for men and women for example there's a clear request well what do you think is going to happen to those tens of thousands of people who got eighteen are they going to end up settling in ghettos like in paris and other major cities. no one should move one should try to avoid. ghettos and also not a solution. so integration integration into the labor market and integration into society is a must when we want to have these full communities peaceful societies in the future can the bans on work us like the one in austria actually work to integrate people into european societies or instead enraged them by forcing to give up on their is
a dish it's a sick it's a sick it's a signal it's a signal now it's a signal that it's not directed helping of course but is a signal. to the migrants. if you want to leave here if you want to stay for ever in europe if you want to stay for ever in germany in austria france or in the sweden you have to accept the way of life of. the relevant society and work is of cause transplanting i'll state it but we're how society to europe and it's not acceptable and therefore. it's not a problem of messes it's about it's a signal to the migrants you want to stay here you have to integrate but what if that signal eliminates those migrants it would further away
or forces them to radicalize civil war would you hear that saying of from america i don't i don't think so and it's biased by far not the majority not even most of their own minority of migrants who want to force their wives who are the poor come. so i think it's a clear division line between the majority who is willing to integrate and a minority wants to establish a parallel society which is unacceptable do you feel like there is any other way to make fame migrants enter great into the european society without asking them to give up on their traditions if traditions are clearly against european traditions they have to decide
whether they want to stay in europe and do accept the european way of life or at the end they have to go back to desert site is. but they also know in movement look to saudi arabia. will come bring some of no women who drive cars i think. that's a good sign and i think what is happening in their own societies. should be thinking into the consideration those of been living in the european country and the rise of their right in europe is directly connected to their refugee influx j.r.c. a danger here they hate the passion is this leading to politics that is more intolerant than usual if integration is rejected by certain groups of migrants that could. leads to such
a situation but that we have to avoid it therefore we have to inhance all measures for successful integration. so there's no repercussion on the european society itself. here is now saying terror acts of a completely new nature niagra tax vehicles being used as weapons lone wolf attacks as well as a spike in violence aimed at refugees goes both ways attacks on camps and homes individual assaults what's happening why is the continent becoming infiltrated with violence. first of all i would not blame the migrants or effort use what the situation this has a root cause is it's the export of oil is simply in principle who seems to be defeated in its own region and now tries to bring. do you think
with a shmucks the war to euro. but that means only that there should be more european cooperation more common fight against terrorists and. change of information etc etc i think it's possible and we should not be afraid of its terrorism in austria as minister for foreign affairs and integration sebastian courts sad immigration is changing australia not in a positive but even negative way would you agree with this statement. no i would want i want to do re sleep so far. we've ever been successful in integration. some dragoons. some problems. for example brought into austria by the mums who are not part of also
muslim society but paid from abroad. you're still in law on the islam is for beating financing from abroad of religious communities so as ingrid we have to take in the right positions and. we will succeed in that with another law and germany belgium swit and austria that will have been considering the idea of creating a mini shang game zone to better guard their external borders and stem the flow of refugees france and germany have been discussing multi-speed integration for the e.u. even the unity is a bit of a danger here are members going to drift away from each other. yes i don't on the don't support such. tendencies and initiatives. the solution is a better control of the outside border of the out of borders of the european union
and not exclude european countries from european integration you're taking part in the dialogue of civilizations for a moment rhoda silent while the focus on multiple already in regional and global developments but today it seems like people want instant solutions a lot more than a dialogue calling for patients and dialogue is i dare say i mean boring how do you change that yes of course not i loath is very often more cumbersome way but the best way. if we want to achieve what is the vision of the finest majority of people to live in peace to enjoy prosperity and to prove prepare a better future for the children and grandchildren there are no instant solutions. no violence illusions there's only the way to explore how we
can live together and solve to get all these problems and this is still the major achievement of the european union and the council of europe that european countries came together to solve such questions to give a. mr schumer thank you for being with us today were talking to walter schwimmer former secretary general of the council of europe and co-founder of dialogue of civilizations research institute about their recent independence referendum in catalonia and the impact it will have spain on the rest of europe for this edition of sophie and co i'll see you next time. there will come.
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